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Many of these forums provide protection to their sponsors. For those who pay, contrary remarks are removed immediately, and the thread can go on one sided until everyone gets bored and moves on to something else. There is little consideration of fact, just dollars, and the guy who pays gets his way every time.
This position limits our ability to respond to bogus claims directly. Regardless of skill level, most tuners, professional and otherwise, strive to turn out good work. In my experience, almost all tuners take pride in offering the best calibration possible. A few short years ago, these tuners had to jump through hoops to make the best of a bad situation when tuning injectors with unknown characteristics. Most learned to do a good job with limited or no data, but times have changed, and those in the know choose to work with a known quantity.
Between the GM injector models that Calibrated Success offers for Ford Racing injectors, and the plug and play data offered by Injector Dynamics for Ford, GM, and Chrysler applications, tuners are no longer forced to guess.
As a result, they can turn out a better calibration in less time which benefits everyone from the tuner, to the guy that drives the car to work every day. This data has become a major selling point for Injector Dynamics as an increasing number of tuners experience the benefit of working with accurate data. Surprisingly, these claims spread from the safety of the vendor sponsored forums, to the HP Tuners forum where there is no protection.
Everyone can say what they want as long as they remain semi-civil. As far as I can tell, the rules are — no eye gouging — no strikes to the groin — and no biting. Everything else goes, as long as it contains technical content. Ask FIC about the cease and kanji blue belt letter. Shady business needs to be called out in it. The originator of the LS1 thread fought back by asking what seemed like a valid question.
Turns out that the spreadsheet presented as proof of competence was a glaring example of deceit, and incompetenceto the point of being comical.
No one likes to be deceived, and anyone spending hard earned money for a set of injectors and accurate data would have good reason to be upset.
For those willing to immerse themselves in the technical details, read on, and I will detail this circus act for you. HP Tuners thread The Injector Dynamics spreadsheets that are referred to in this article are available for download on the Injector Dynamics Application Data page. When you make a living generating and interpreting data, you quickly develop an eye for patterns, and when something is not right, it tends to jump out. What jumps out here is the flow vs pressure table in rows 28 and Bernoulli is the guy who discovered that for the flow of an incompressible fluid through an orifice to double, the pressure must quadruple.
Put another way, the change in flow is proportional to the square root of the pressure ratio. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, and that is particularly true when interpreting numerical data.
Having done that, all four data sets should lie exactly on top of each other, as they are all representing the same injector, the only difference being the fuel pressure range. Are we to believe that this injector has entirely different characteristics depending on what hood it is under? This is odd, considering that it is the easiest part of the data to get right, and anyone with an ASNU, or New Age flow bench should be able to generate an accurate flow vs pressure curve.
This would be funny if not for the fact that the well-meaning tuners mentioned above expect this to be accurate. After all, the data has been presented as a major selling point, and someone shelled out cash for this. So now we move on to the part that requires skill, knowledge, and proper equipment to generate, the offset table.It provides the most complete flow matching and latency value information available in the industry, featuring dynamic slope flow rates and individual latency deviation values.
This method provides tuners with the best possible injector data to successfully tune their cars. The Data Match Technology information sheet provided with each set of Fuel Injector Clinic injectors matched using this method gives you three sets of very important data:.Fuel Injector Clinic 1100cc vs Injector Dynamics 1300cc flow test - 10% flow difference
Dynamic Slope Flow Rate for each individually serial numbered injector. Since the ECU typically only accepts one value for all injectors, it is clear how important it is that this flow rate is as consistent as possible from one injector to another. The individual slope flow data represented in this table is calculated from at least 1, pulses per injector, making Data Match Technology the most detailed information provided by any performance injector company at this time.
If you run a different base pressure or a different fuel, you would need to adjust the flow rate in your tuning software accordingly. More on flow rate can be found in our tech information. Individual Injector Offset Values for each serial numbered injector in your set.
The offset value often referred to as the dead time, lag time, or latency value is used by the ECU to compensate for the loss of flow during the opening and closing period of each pulse, where full aka constant or linear flow has not been achieved.
While offset matching will improve the result with all injectors, it is especially critical for injectors with a large flow rate for examplecc and larger at idle or light throttle. This is because the offset correction length applied by the ECU represents a much higher percentage of total pulse width, so any error is greatly amplified.
For example, a cc injector may need a 1. If there is a 0. Using the same variance in a smaller injector, like a cc, which requires a 2. If the cc injector set has the same 0. Also at play is the fact that in large performance injectors the effective pulse width range you are operating in 0. Therefore a well-matched injector set is easy to tune and performs well in idle, cranking and other light throttle conditions. Injector Voltage Offset table.
The bottom of the Data Match Technology information sheet lists average offset values for the type of injector you purchased. This data is very time consuming to collect because it requires our injector technicians to perform detailed offset testing at all the voltages and pressures listed typically five voltages and five pressures. A test at one voltage and one pressure is derived from test data accumulated from pulsing the injector hundreds of times at 0.
See the four graphs below of this level of testing with even more detail in low pulse width area. So Fuel Injector Clinic tests a minimum of 16 injectors in order to collect a good average. Multiply the 16 injectors by the 25 voltage and pressure combinations in your offset table and you can see why this 4, point process is not for the faint of heart. Bottom line: Fuel Injector Clinic provides more in depth data with each injector set than any other company in the aftermarket performance industry.
The method by which we gather and present data as well as characterize injectors is at the forefront of the industry. Information for ALL graphs shown.
Information Specific to individual graphs. The other graphs below zoom in on the low pulse width area to show why this is the most challenging condition for an injector.Remember Me? What's New? Results 1 to 16 of Thread: 42lb injector data.
Tuning High Flowing Injectors For Low Pulse Width Operation With FIC
Thread Tools Show Printable Version. I have the ifr table from redhardsupra from like 6 years ago,and upon searching found it may be incorrect,but i cant find the new data anywhere? Im not buying a cd for either,any help would be great. Part number from the injector? Originally Posted by Iam Broke. Originally Posted by Higgs Boson. Originally Posted by redtail From the Bosch website these are Conversion makes that You run at 4 bar I presume 58 psi.
The spreadsheet I found calculates the following results. I hope this helps you get started. Not likely any one here will share the actual injector data. I'll share what I have And I got that info from building a table off of this info:. Im not sure why there are so many people that want others to pay for some info that should be easy to obtain. If i had all the info,i would post it for people to see. Heck i let people borrow my tuning equipment at no charge to make some changes to there cars,if im not using it at the time,sure take it.
Im not sure why people are the way they are. But there are still good people out there who will go out of there way to help someone out. I appreciate it.Remember Me? What's New? Results 1 to 7 of 7. Thread: FIC injectors. Thread Tools Show Printable Version.
FIC 1200 CC (Formerly 127LB)
Was wondering if any of you guys have experience with these injectors? Does anyone have good injector data for the Thanks in advance. FIC provides data for their s that you can get from their website. I haven't used their injectors personally but I've seen plenty of guys running them. I have seen there data sheets that they provide. Just wanted to see if anyone had a tune set up and if the data they supplied was good.
Yeah their flow sheets provide some basic flow and deadtime data, but they have excel sheets on their website that provide data for the modifiers as well.
You should be able to plug all that in and goand if you had any questions I? I have used their injectors on Whipple Ss, my own coyote with a single turbo and FIC s, and others as well. Solid idle, great driveability, have had zero issues with any I've tuned.
You won't be disappointed. Same as others. No issues with what I have worked with. Not on the same level as IDs but great for the money. Originally Posted by wbt. All times are GMT The time now is PM.Which is commonly encountered at idle and even during cruise conditions. So, before jumping into the more technical stuff you at least need to have a basic understanding of the operation of modern fuel injectors.
The bigger the injector, the more pronounced and widespread the nonlinearity becomes. They then use these renderings to make an estimation of how much fuel came out. At the OE-level, the flow and dead time matching process is much more lenient.
The average high quality aftermarket fuel injector manufacturer flow matches within 2 to 3-percent, but cannot test for offset in production quantities. The red box represents the OE-level of variance allowed when matching is done by manufacturers like Bosch and Denso; green, the variance typical by the majority of the aftermarket; blue, the variance allowed by Fuel Injector Clinic. Research And Development. An example of the raw hexadecimal code found in most modern automotive ECUs, read using the hex code disassembler and debugging software, IDA.
This is the data that aftermarket engineers sift through to find addresses for important tables such as ignition timing, VVT, injector compensation, etc, which can then be used to build a single or multidimensional table in third party tuning software to make adjustments. The ECU in your vehicle automatically assumes that the fuel injectors operate on a linear line from a pulse width of 19 ms down to 0 ms, which is shown as the dotted red line on the graph below.
We highlighted the correct offset value in red. It should be noted that in order to download the Accesstuner software, Cobb requires you to at least have a basic understanding of ECU calibration. Finding The Outliers. No longer just matching sets in the linear zone to 1-percent in dynamic flow and 2-percent in offsets. While still idling rich due to their large size, the car drove much more predictably and smoothly around town and at idle.
Fuel Injector Clinic was able to collect valuable information from this test that will be used to further refine their injector matching process and better the industry as a whole. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request.
Data Match Technology
We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. About Us Sponsors Advertising.View a Sample Injector Flow Sheet. Base Fuel Pressure also: Base Pressure : The pressure to which a fuel system is regulated during start and idle condition. It is important to note that this value depends on what fluid pressure is used.
Diffuser Plate: These plates are visible on to the bottom of many modern injectors. The plates contain any number of holes of differing sizes and orientations.
Duty Cycle also: Injector Duty Cycle or IDC : The time that a fuel injector spends open compared to the total time available two rotations of a four stroke enginetypically expressed in a percentage. Duty cycle is RPM dependant since the faster an engine spins, the less time an injector will have available to open before the next ignition event.
Ferrous Metals : A term used to denote the presence of iron Fe in a metal alloy. In order for an electromagnet within a fuel injector to move the internal valve mechanism, it must act upon a ferrous piece within the injector. It is these ferrous pieces which are susceptible to corrosion. Hygroscopic: the ability of a substance to attract and hold water in suspension. Injector Length: Injector length is typically measured from the center of the upper seal o-ring to the center of the lower seal o-ring in most cases.
Typical injector heights are 64mm, 53mm, and 38mm between o-ring centers. These injectors are typically installed in the intake manifold near the cylinder head or in the cylinder head itself, and aimed to spray fuel at the intake valve s.
These injectors can be fired sequentially each injector is timed to fire just prior to opening of the corresponding intake valvein batches groups of injectors fired togetheror simultaneously all injectors are fired at the same time. This type of injection allows the precise and even dispensation of fuel to all cylinders.
Pickling your fuel system : Pickling is a slang term used to describe the process of preserving your fuel system components by running some type of preservative fluid regular gasoline in most cases through the system. This is done in order to displace liquids that can hold water such as alcohol based fuels including E Pulse: One fueling operation for a single injector which typically coincides with the intake stroke of its matching cylinder in a MPI setup.
Pulse width is used in conjunction with RPM to determine the injector duty cycle. Saturated: This signal is used to operate high impedance injectors. Rather than a complicated injector driver signal requiring a mid-pulse reduction, a saturated signal is a simple constant strength signal.
Genesis 2. Mini R52R Fuel Injector Clinic Search.These values were gathered from various sources. These may not match exactly with the values you've seen elsewhere, but they should be fairly close. The problem is that each injector can behave a little differently from another of the same size and manufacturer.
So there's some variation that simply can't be accounted for in all cases. Start with the values listed below and fine tune from there. All of these values assume stock base fuel pressure 37psi for 1Gs and Deadtime is listed as an adjustment to be entered into the ECMLink application, which is then applied on top of the calculated stock adjustment.
For more details on how to adjust for varying fuel pressure or how to use the fuel adjustment tab in ECMLink, see the Fuel Settings page. So for s as in my car with pure E85, I would run:. Using that formula works perfectly on my car. For even more E85 data, see the E85 notes page. This chart outlines the approximate max airflow which can be supported for a given duty cycle and injector flow rate on E User Tools Log In. Site Tools Search. Injector Data Compilation These values were gathered from various sources.
Actual flow: cc RC E85 Air Flow Support Chart: This chart outlines the approximate max airflow which can be supported for a given duty cycle and injector flow rate on E Except where otherwise noted, content on this wiki is licensed under the following license: CC Attribution-Share Alike 4.